Ben Miller wrote:
Ben Millar wrote:

Funny fact for my namesake Ben Miller - I grew up in Tring!!

What a coincidence.

I don't recall any namesakes! When were you in Tring? Which school did you go to?

Cheers,

Ben

I was in Tring from birth in 1976 up until I left Tring school at 18.
My folks still live there, and we often go back.

What is the current situation regarding listing these birds now as I see that LGRE has added one to his British year list this year.

John

Not sure of your interest John but as 4 males currently survive from at least 1999 and are clearly part of the once well-established Bedfordshire population, I don't understand the nature of your question. The birds remain an integral part of the UK list until the very last individual expires. I still run trips to see these last surviving individuals but costs are high and it is extremely difficult keeping birds at feeding stations with so many Common Pheasants, Muntjacs, Magpies and other creatures in competition. Also, due to continued trespassing at the main site and the breaking down of fences, security has been reinforced and General Motors are taking firm action against those birders we know are gaining access (the area is on CCTV and I can identify most individuals breaching the security fence; typically 2 individuals involved with Bird Dissemination are involved and others from Cheshire/Staffordshire). A number of visiting twitchers have been caught red-handed scaling the fence in the early hours and this really has not gone down very well and because of this, the future of at least two birds is now of very grave concern as GM take a very dim view of these actions and breaches of security, particularly as a number of motor manufacturer's utilise the site to test prototype vehicles.

Outside of Bedfordshire, a further 5-12 males of captive origin survive in the wild but were NOT part of the original introduction and stock. These are therefore not considered countable.

Hi Lee

You know my interest as you can see that I am currently second on the list. This is the first time I have joined the list and I have done it because there appear to be rules regarding what you can or cannot list (i.e BOU rules).

Now using those rules this is what BOU says about Lady A's qualification.

C6 - Former naturalized species – species formerly placed in C1 whose naturalized populations are either no longer self-sustaining or are considered extinct, e.g. Lady Amherst's Pheasant Chrysolophus amherstiae.

Now using that statement how can you list Lady A as part of the BOU rules.

Whilst we are on the subject. How can you also count the Radipole Hooded Merganser which has been rejected by BOU.

You count what you like with your UK400 club but surely within the restraints of the BOU rules you should comply with them and take off both Lady A & Hooded Merganser from your list.

You may think I have a vested interest in you taking off two species so that I can get closer on the list but you have no fear of me catching you up as I work in the week so will always miss loads of species. My only target this year (which will be my last twitching year) is to reach 300 but I will do it totally under the BOU rules, which I hope you will do also.

John

I have had this conversation with some members of the BOURC and they seem to understand (like me) that Lady A in Bedfordshire is COUNTABLE until the last remaining individual of the post 1966 stock dies out. This seems logical and sensible but I do agree that Lady A is finished, after all I haven't seen a female since Year 2000.

There are countless lists on BUBO BOU admitting the Radipole Hooded Merganser to their lists and hence why I added it. However, as you will see from my UK400 Club list also on BUBO, that I don't count it and it is not (currently) countable. However, I personally feel that this bird is a natural vagrant rather than an escapee and NOBODY knows its merits other than itself. It turned up the very morning after a bird in exactly the same plumage was last seen on The Azores - relocating bird perhaps. Portland has proven its ability to receive far-flung vagrants from elsewhere in Europe next day (eg last year's Stejgener's Stonechat)

And you may be well out with your assumptions. Spending nearly 6 months of the year tour leading and guiding around the globe, YOU are in a better position than me to chase UK rares, even if you can only travel at weekends - nobody has more commitments or is busier than me. Remember I have a wife and 4 cats to fulfil, numerous businesses to run and countless birders to answer and help

Like you Lee I also feel that the Radipole bird is genuine but as of yet BOU haven't accepted it and until they do I won't count it. Likewise the L.A as a catergory 6 shouldn't be tickable either.

Whether you think it is right or wrong has no bearing on this isue as we still should abide by the rules as they stand and then complain with a good case why the other two species should be asccepted onto the lists.

If after that they change their stance on these birds then count them but if not you shouldn't consider them on the BOU list.

John